Last week during our practicum time, we got an introduction to permaculture from Mike. This week during classroom time, we will be visiting Mike's permaculture homestead called Lillie House, which actually has it's own blog site and can be accessed here. I'd suggest reading a bit about the project before we head out there so we have some familiarity with it!
For this week's class, I would like us to continue thinking about permaculture as well as sustainability, and also feasibility. First, these are some of Mike's top-recommended videos on forest gardening and permaculture. They provide a basis for the tour we will be getting from Mike on Thursday.
1. A modern urban Permaculturist- Rob Finely - planted 20 urban parkway forest gardens in L.A.
2. E.F. schumacher's Forest Garden in England
3. A case study of one of the traditional systems that Permaculturists and forest gardeners are drawing inspiration from (presented by Permaculture designer Geoff Lawton)
Mike also wanted to add this as a "footnote" to add academic rigor to our discussion-- he says:
"much of the study and information about these traditional systems is being done by academics across many disciplines to demonstrate the function and value, as well as the need to protect these traditional lifeways. These systems are being found and studied world-wide, including in traditional Europe and North America. This work is very needed! This is one example of a high-quality study which documents some of the forms and practices as well as the societal value in Nepal: http://www.bioversityinternational.org/uploads/tx_news/Home_Gardens_in_Nepal_1166.pdf
The attached image from that study shows the typical form of the "home garden" systems as it is found around the world, which you will see replicated in detail at Lillie House! "
Learning about the theoretical groundwork for permaculture as framed by Mike really got me thinking, curious, excited and hopeful. I was specifically attracted to the idea of us as human beings learning from the natural world and indigenous societies, to work with rather than against nature.
The whole idea of this just makes so much sense to me... I began to wonder, why isn't this being done everywhere? Why is it that I heard the term "permaculture" for the first time just in the past 2 years? Why aren't we doing more of this?
So, as I do some more independent study on permaculture on the inter webs, I come across a couple things that give me a better understanding of permaculture and that really get me thinking...
(suggested by Mike), for those who want additional exploration, here is a site that introduces the Permaculture Design System
I began to be curious about the native Kalamazoo Potawatomi tribe's farming and food culture was; one site said "The Potawatomi Indians were farming people. Potawatomi women planted and harvested corn, beans, squash, and tobacco, as well as gathering wild rice and berries. The men hunted deer, elk, and wild birds and caught fish. The Potawatomis also tapped trees for maple syrup as Michigan people do today. Here is a website with more information about Native American food"
So, what are your thoughts about all permaculture in general, and permaculture as a sustainable agricultural practice? What are some of your biological, social, spiritual, economical and/or logical opinions about permaculture? What do you think are some types of challenges that we face in implementing permaculture/towards it in our everyday lives? In relation to learning from the people before us who had a smaller scale and more "sustainable" farming system, does anyone know anything about their techniques?
I hope this helps us think a bit more deeply about permaculture if it is something new to us and also sets a foundation for our understanding of it!
I am an Econ student so I will share my opinion of permaculture in the economic perspective. Firstly, I have to acknowledge that permaculture is good, clearly, because any culture that terminate itself is ridiculous. However, achieving permaculture as a sustainable agriculture practice is not an easy task to do. The reason is that, based on the current value of the society, making development implies greater efficiency, and the practice of sustainable agriculture might sacrifice the efficiency. For example, it is no doubt that the industrialized agriculture is more ‘productive’, and based on the diagram of production possibility frontier, if one sector is more productive, the entire PPF curve would shift outwards. As a result, this shift implies people can consume more agriculture good, or they can consume the same amount of agriculture good while consuming more others goods. People’s real income has been increased, and they are gaining greater utility by have a better combination of products. So the problem is, if people choose the sustainable agricultural practice, which (I assume) means choose traditional agriculture instead of industrialized agriculture, in one hand, the advantage of economic of scale in the large farm will be lost, in the other hand, people need to spend more energy on farming by themselves, so the productivity in the sector other than agriculture would be decreased, which is said to be not economic.
ReplyDeleteAlso, based on Lewis Two Sector Model, it states in order to make development, government need to transport more labor from agriculture sector (which usually have surplus labor) to manufacture sector, because the capital owner in the manufacture sector can continuously use their profit to reinvest into their own sector from a period to the next period, which would result in sustainable growth. With this value, world bank is helping those developing countries with larger agricultural sector to be more industrialized.
However, what those development theories and models don’t show is the externality, which is some serious problem like population, health (in long-term), and etc. I believe most people nowadays have already realized these facts, but the problem of poverty also exists domestically and globally, which is also serious. So making a choice between industrialized agriculture and traditional sustainable agriculture is hard. I wonder if people would really seriously consider about traditional sustainable agriculture when we are living in a perfect world, where all countries are developed.
From a scientific or economic standpoint I have absolutely no understanding of permaculture. However, from a social and psychological standpoint, permaculture seems like the ideal method of farming that isn't even impossible to achieve. Socially, every system seems to work better when varying ideas are combined and solutions are viewed as an ongoing and flexible process. Psychologically, significant collaboration from all parties involved in a process promotes feelings of inclusion and worth in the individual participants. In my mind, permaculture utilizes these same benefits of collaboration, but the collaborators are the plants instead of people. By being grown and utilized in a cyclical and heterogenous manner, the plants are given agency to collaborate with each other for healthier groups and individual plants. In the permaculture system, all of the individual plants and insects and other participants are allowed to benefit each other in ways that cannot be achieved in strict monocultures.
ReplyDeleteWhile the idea of permaculture and its benefits seems completely logical to me, I do recognize that there are significant hurdles to using permaculture on a national scale. So much of our current agricultural system is based on expansive fields of a homogenous crop that commercial permaculture would require an extreme restructuring simply not feasible at that large of a scale. Further, the majority of our agricultural technology seems (at least in my mind) to function best for specific mono crops, so it is also not likely possible to use current technology in permaculture settings. Overall, I am really excited to learn more about what these relationships actually look like and how permaculture is being utilized by present-day farmers.
I didn’t know what permaculture was before taking this class, which is pretty unbelievable considering I have an environmental studies concentration and have taken multiple classes at K about environmentalism and sustainability. It is a fascinating practice and I really enjoyed learning more about it from the resources that Mike and Shar provided. I, of course, have some doubts about the feasibility of permaculture for everyone, but for those dedicated to it, it seems to be working quite well. Although the ideals of permaculture are that it takes little work and is self-sufficient, I feel somewhat overwhelmed at the beginning stage of learning about it. It seems to involve a lot of knowledge and they really emphasize planning well from the get-go. I do appreciate the small-scale versions of it that can be implemented in urban spaces, as that seems more accessible for me in the near future. From a spiritual standpoint, I would love to be able to connect with nature and fresh food even when not taking a class like Slow Farming, and I think permaculture could be helpful in that regard. I’m still working through a lot of my thoughts, critiques, and reflections on permaculture, but I think it is a really helpful and important conversation to be having.
ReplyDeleteI have only heard about permaculture in passing before this class and am grateful for the chance to finally work on a more thorough understanding of the concept. With that said, I'm not yet sure about how I feel. I'm not convinced that this is a viable option for the casual gardener but I do appreciate the opportunity it provides to think more holistically about the ways in which we interact with our food and the way our food interacts with our shared environment. Something I was thinking about a lot when I was watching the videos Shar provided, especially the one about Ron Finley, was how much I appreciate people who see food and gardening as an entry point into larger systems. It has always seemed to me to be such a productive, positive response! I think I'm so interested by this perspective because it's not necessarily one I share, but I do deeply appreciate it and acknowledge the multifaceted approach change will require.
ReplyDeleteMore logistically I guess, I'm also interested to learn more about what a food farm or permaculture in practice looks like. I feel as though I understand in a theoretical space what it entails but would love to see how that plays out, especially in a real person's life. I really hope we get the chance to at least talk to Mike tomorrow because I'm sure he'd have valuable insight to provide!
Permaculture is a super interesting topic and I especially enjoy the video that you presented about the urban gangster in Los Angeles (Amy also showed me this video). I have come to the realization that creating these spaces, whether they be food forests or sustainable gardens in urban areas, they are the future. It is just like Geoff Lawton said in the video about food forests being part of our past and our future. Just by the way things are going in the present, we are growing increasingly disconnected from nature and moving ever closer to artificial objects. Spiritually, I see food forests as a playground for humans in which they can interact and learn from nature. Hopefully somewhere along the way we will return to a previous state in which we valued balance and harmony as opposed to gluttony and over consumption.
ReplyDeleteI can see how in rural and suburban areas food forests or other permaculture related spaces can be more easily implemented. Once they are created, sustaining them won’t be as difficult. The problem then lies in the “aesthetic” of the space. It may look unorganized or not appealing to some people but this is purely the work of our cultural norms around beauty and symmetry. The natural order of things is disorder and we must learn to find the beauty in that. In more urban settings I foresee economic issues regarding land price and ownership. Land tends to be more pricey the deeper into central cities that one goes. I can see entities such as land banks who practice land banking strategies could be incredibly useful for providing appropriate spaces in strategic locations.
Before this class, I was not aware what permaculture was. Now that I have had the opportunity to learn more about what permaculture is, I think that it is a very good idea. I’m not too sure about the biological aspect, however, I think that permaculture is good for a diverse range of environments, such as urban and rural areas, which means that more people can have more access to farming. I also think people who come from different economic backgrounds would have an opportunity to have access to these resources through permaculture (We see this in the “A Modern Urban Permaculturist - Rob Finely” YouTube video, where the permaculture in LA helped to feed and educate a whole community. Permaculture allows for a hands-on educational lesson for community members. For example, many cities, such as NYC, DC, and LA have urban gardens, in which the community can get involved in planting and eating foods. Additionally, these urban gardens give out food to people who are homeless, giving many community members equal access to the benefits of permaculture. Pertaining to permaculture, there are challenges that can arise. This can include communities not having the resources and knowledge of how to get involved in permaculture. Additionally, the length of who long permaculture continues is a concern, if there are community members who are not as passionate as others. Furthermore, fast-past environments may prevent members of the community to fully engage in permaculture due to time constraints. I am not really knowledgeable about permaculture and it’s techniques from the past.
ReplyDeleteBefore taking this class I had never heard the word permaculture. After slowing coming to understand what it is, I realize now that I actually had seen some types of permaculture happening, or I had heard about some things, but I had not been able to identify those things as permaculture before now. Mainly I had heard about different types of urban farming techniques; I had also heard about some people I know back in Maine who had very "wild" gardens that supposedly were really well planned and complex. I cannot help but assume now that those gardens were probably permaculture. Similar to what you mentioned in your reflection above, now that I know about it, I'm really surprised why it hasn't been widely talked about! Especially after seeing what Rob Finely (Gangster Gardener) was doing in his community, I am even more convinced that permaculture education should be a widely taught thing. I was really impressed by what he was able to do for his community and I cannot help but imagine an ideal world where these food forests would pop up everywhere and solve food security problems all over. This is obviously very idealistic and not necessarily practical, but I feel that even on a smaller scale, just establishing a few more of these could potentially do a lot of good. I feel that one of the main problems these small projects may encounter would be from a lack of funding or perhaps city regulation. This goes back to the age old problem in our whole system that we have talked about in many of our class discussions. I am curious to hear more about what everyone else thinks about this topic and I can't wait to see the Lillie House and see some real permaculture happening. Thanks for covering this topic! It should be really interesting!
ReplyDeleteFirst, love Ron Finley! An update to his story is that he recently successfully fought an eviction when the property he leases changed owners and the new owners gave him the option of buying the property for $500,000 or giving up his garden and moving out. Because Ron already had a following on social media, he was able to launch a fund-raising campaign that attracted a lot of attention, including from some folks in the organic foods industry (who, yes, probably saw a marketing opportunity). This story has a happy ending—the funds came through and Ron is in the process of buying the land his garden grows on. But what if he hadn’t had a popular TED talk on the web? What if he wasn’t so charismatic? Would he have been able to keep the garden he put so much work into?
ReplyDeleteFor me, this raises a question about who gets do to gardening and, especially, who gets to do permaculture. One of the ideas behind permaculture is that you design a garden space that ultimately becomes mostly self-sustaining so that your primary work is harvesting, cooking, and eating. The main work in this system comes in the first few years when you are planning, designing, and doing the initial layout and planting. But what if you don’t own land and aren’t sure if you are going to be living where you are currently living in another year or even another month? It doesn’t seem to me likely that you are going to want to invest a lot of energy or money in your yard or garden if you don’t have “sovereignty” over it—if someone else can come along and tell you you have to leave it or if your circumstances aren’t stable enough to allow you to remain.
So, again, I feel like bigger changes in our culture are called for. That certain people in our society are allowed to own and control huge parcels of land and natural resources and other people are denied any access to land just seems fundamentally wrong to me. And who gets to own land and who doesn’t is a direct result of a patriarchal and racist system—we can’t keep pretending there’s any kind of “fairness” involved here.
But again, the question of “how do we change this” is really hard to answer. I was really interested in the article “The Controversial Third Ethic of Permaculture” because it seems to be trying to address this imbalance of power—while at the same time trying to be really careful not to associate permaculture with communism or socialism! And I’m certainly not enough of a scholar of political systems to be able to critique either of those systems fairly. I am convinced, however, that our current system of capitalism that seems to be free of any real ethical constraints is a pretty bad idea.
Wendell Berry once said (or wrote), “We learn from our gardens to deal with the most urgent question of the time: How much is enough?” For me, this is a question that’s useful to wrestle with. How much is enough for my life? What do I need to be happy and satisfied? Is my life in balance with what I am taking from others and what I am giving back? What do I really want---more cool stuff or a lifestyle that creates less suffering for others in the world?
I’ve rambled pretty far from permaculture---or maybe I haven’t. If we see permaculture as applying to human interconnectivity as well as ecological connectivity, then maybe these questions are appropriate and necessary.
I’ll say this - no system is “productive” and “efficient’ if it compromises the future. Maybe people want to argue with me on that, but I really don’t think it’s a negotiable term. Maybe people can say it’s a short-term productivity, but unless we are only planning on living for a “short-term”, we probably should think in long-term. Permaculture is a great way to incorporate diverse and different ideas into a holistic system. Ecologically it reflects how nature exists - never static, always changing, always going from one point to another. Spiritually it reflects the idea that humans are not center of the universe, but instead is a mere factor in the grand dance that we are part of. Is incorporating permaculture unrealistic in certain areas? Absolutely. I agree that I wouldn’t want to eat the produces from certain cities because of the sheer air pollution. However, this isn’t the question of convenience or realistic - this is the question of will human race survive?
ReplyDeleteIn general permaculture is good we have to eat to survive. However I do not think that it would work as a method of sustainability for everyone because it's not efficient and does not fit with how we want our food to be produced (in mass quantities). I do think it would work on the individual level if having the proper resources.
ReplyDeleteI think it would be hard to implement permaculture in everyday life because our culture and mindsets about how we produce food are so different. Permaculture in a way has a spiritual point a view. It can be as a harmonious relationship between humans and nature where both are benefiting and helping the other.
Thanks, Shar, for providing so much information! This was really helpful in helping me try to wrap my head around these ideas.
ReplyDeleteThe term permaculture is completely new to me this quarter. It wasn’t something I’ve ever heard used before (which, I think, speaks a lot to how little we value our systems of food in the United States). In most of my conversations, food is only talked about in terms of large scale agriculture or more “traditional” farms. This has often led to me feeling disconnected from the existing discourses. Growing up in the suburbs, in seemed like the only option presented was very small-scale gardening. (And indeed, gardening that focused more on growing flowers than food!) I appreciated getting to watch the Rob Finely video, because it showed what you can do with just a tiny bit of space. (Plus what he was saying about the benefits resonating beyond just better food options really spoke to me.)
While I was looking through these links and videos, I found myself thinking a lot about Na Young’s comments from a previous class. She was asking important questions about what happens when there is no yard (or comparable green space.) I can see how permaculture practices can be implemented in rural areas, the suburbs, and cities that have a least a little bit of growing room. What about those who don’t have access to spaces? What about those who might but, as Na Young pointed out, live in environments that have high levels of pollution? I keep thinking about how interconnected permaculture must be with larger considerations of climate change and the care we give (or don’t give) our environment. Basically, like all of our conversations, I’m trying to be hopeful but keep thinking of more challenges that we face.
David Holmgren described permaculture as making a world that you want to see, rather than being dependent on an old world that is not good for the environment. Reasons to do permaculture:
ReplyDeleteBiological: is more harmonious with the biology of nature, or how it already works
Social: brings people together to work hard over food
Spiritual: connects our human bodies in a more harmonious way with the earth
However, economically I am concerned that permaculture may not be feasible. Can we produce food in that way and have enough to feed every human that inhabits this earth?